Curse

Valkyries · Sep 21, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Hey guys,

I have a question about Healing Seed.

I've heard/heard a LOT of people rave about this skill saying that its incredibly awesome spell and worth it in ANY healing build for Monks.

To be honest (and maybe Im missing something, hense my post) I don't see what is so great about it.

Just so anyone doesn't have to look it up, here is what it does (straight from guildwiki)

For 10 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damage, that ally and all adjacent allies gain 3...25 health.
Casting: 10 Energy
Speed: 2 seconds
Recharge: 25 seconds

To me, its very expensive, it has a long recharge and not a great casting time either. I find it very pricey for what it does and adjacent is a bit harsh too given it really will only be used on tanks/Warriors.

In addition, if other Warriors are there getting attacked, no one gets healed. Its only the char that you cast healing seed on which makes it so good.

So Im puzzled why people believe this is a staple in healing builds. Did I drop the ball and miss something about this skill? Why is this so powerful? I can see its uses but IMO its few and far between.

Comments?

ZenRgy · Sep 21, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Because it works great negatingsmall damage like traps, and especially in halls is great to keep your ghostly hero alive.

Valkyries · Sep 21, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Sorry I should have mentioned... this is for PvE Im talking about...

Anarion Silverhand · Sep 21, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Put it on your tank before he runs in and starts to aggro. If there are mobs stripping/shattering enchants, use a cover enchant.

Valkyries · Sep 21, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

I know what the spell does... I want to know if its really beneficial given the energy cost/recharge time and the amount it heals.

Geez, does anyone read the original post??

Tainek · Sep 21, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

I know what the spell does... I want to know if its really beneficial given the energy cost/recharge time and the amount it heals.

Geez, does anyone read the original post??

Warrior is tanking 15 enemys, its not unusal to take 10-12 hits a second with a mob this large

So at 12 hits a second, over 12 seconds (shame on you if not using an enchanting item to cast this)

lets say its healing 25 hit points a go, over 12 seconds of this barrage, it heals him a total of 3600 HP

Granted this is an extreme example, but even with just 6 Enemys thats 1800Hp Healed

Stemnin · Sep 21, 2006, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Did you try using it yourself? And I use a 20% enchant on my staffs, 10 second + 20% (2 seconds) second last, usually i cast it on the war or sin thats rushing in to a group or when theyre already attacking a group and theyre hp is not going down fast..

Cherno · Sep 21, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

I know what the spell does... I want to know if its really beneficial given the energy cost/recharge time and the amount it heals.

Geez, does anyone read the original post??

Yes we do, and were telling you how to use the skill right to show you how good it is. One thing you seem to be lacking in experience is a good tank. One who knows how to take the agro. I actually prefer to form parties with just one warrior because agro management is much easier.

Even when not doing the initial agro, this skill is excelent for using when backline casters are getting pummeled, as the backline tends to bunch up and will benefit from the AoE heals.

The other great benefit of this skill is that it buys you a little time. Even if just a few seconds, that gives you time to throw a spot heal on someone else and not worry about the person you put seed on or to regen your energy a bit.

I've used a good healing build in the Deep using Seed + Healing hands on your tanking warriors.

Valkyries · Sep 21, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

Warrior is tanking 15 enemys, its not unusal to take 10-12 hits a second with a mob this large

So at 12 hits a second, over 12 seconds (shame on you if not using an enchanting item to cast this)

lets say its healing 25 hit points a go, over 12 seconds of this barrage, it heals him a total of 3600 HP

Granted this is an extreme example, but even with just 6 Enemys thats 1800Hp Healed

Thank you, at least you thought about your answer.

Honestly though I'd rather use a Duo 20% Recharge than a 20% Enchantments.. but thats another story.

I guess Ill have to give it a try and see how it goes... Im still not really convinced, but honestly I haven't really played with it much. To me it just seemed a bit too situational and costly. But Ill try it out for sure

Cherno · Sep 21, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Depending on your energy managment and skills duo 20% recharge will only get make you energy poor. As for being situational, while true, the situation will almost always present itself, even if not being used in the "perfect" situation of the tank taking agro. As I mentioned, backline taking agro and being pummeled is more common than not and seed can be very beneficial in that situation as well. The 20% enchant is nice, but not absolutely necessary, it just buys you more time.

I will usually run with two sets or weapons, one a +5 energy and 20% wand with the 20/20 collectors offand or a totem axe (or rajazan's fervor) and the 20/20 offhand

Valkyries · Sep 21, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherno

Depending on your energy managment and skills duo 20% recharge will only get make you energy poor. As for being situational, while true, the situation will almost always present itself, even if not being used in the "perfect" situation of the tank taking agro. As I mentioned, backline taking agro and being pummeled is more common than not and seed can be very beneficial in that situation as well. The 20% enchant is nice, but not absolutely necessary, it just buys you more time.

I will usually run with two sets or weapons, one a +5 energy and 20% wand with the 20/20 collectors offand or a totem axe (or rajazan's fervor) and the 20/20 offhand

Thanks for the nice comments Cherno.

Thats extremely helpful

All the same, I honestly never have any energy mgmt issues in PVE. If I run out of energy, its usually a pretty big fight. But I always bring some sort of energy mgmt skills. Usually MoR/Insp Hex/etc.

I find that devoting one/two skills for energy really makes this problem not a problem anymore. If the fight is really huge, maybe something like healing Seed/Vig spirit/etc are things I should be bringing.

At any rate, I guess Ill never know until I try it out. I played with it briefly for a couple missions and wasn't too kean on it but it also depends a lot on the group.

Also, one last thing. you meantioned about tanks. Well in my experience warrriors from PUGS don't want to tank. They want to be the smash em up, kill everything warriors and have no idea how to keep aggros or how to tank ANYTHING. Completely useless. I even remember a thread about this and basically whoever said that a Warrior should tank got Flamed to DEATH... called Noob amongs many other things... the thread quickly got ugly.

My point is, these types of Warriors RARELY exist. I only get this luxary when I team with the guild or a Warrior who is quite good at maintaining aggro. Certainly not always the case.

Anarion Silverhand · Sep 21, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

I know what the spell does... I want to know if its really beneficial given the energy cost/recharge time and the amount it heals.

Geez, does anyone read the original post??

Did I in any way explain to you what the skill did? Did I?

I tried to tell you of one of the ways to use the skill, but that wasn't good enough it seems.

Healing seed is a usefull skill when in teams with an experienced tank who knows how to hold aggro. It'll save you a lot of healing. Just pre-cast it and watch the tank's health stay at 100%.

Carth` · Sep 21, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

I suggest you try it.

Valkyries · Sep 21, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarion Silverhand

Did I in any way explain to you what the skill did? Did I?

I tried to tell you of one of the ways to use the skill, but that wasn't good enough it seems.

That is correct, LOL!!

Honestly I was looking for a bit of detail that is all. I wanted to know why it was valued so much when to me the stats of it looks so so at best...

But it was answered fine.. so I thank you for your time

Quote:

I suggest you try it.

I DEFINITELY will..

A lot of people have great things to say and although I have tried it briefly like I said, its not something that I thought was really overpowering. Ill see if I like it more after playing with it a few more missions. Hopefully Ill get a good Warrior to make it worthwhile. I think that was half the problem before. Because IMO from the sounds of it, you REALLY need a good warrior to make this worthwhile.

Cherno · Sep 21, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

It is amazing what a good warrior can do for a team, what is actually more important is the team behind the warrior. A few guildies and I were very lucky to get a pug in Raisu Palace the other day who, without even discussing it beforehand, knew exactly how to manage aggro. Our guildie warrior went in and got agro, all the casters stayed just at bubble range for targetting enemies. Masters in Raisu in 15 minutes.

Usually your best warriors and support players are ones who have been part of a team in FoW, UW or the elite missions as they know the true importance of proper agro mgmt.

Even if you don't have the greatest warrior, give seed a chance, as I said above, you will almost always find a use for it (when Danika decides she is a tank)

Valkyries · Sep 21, 2006, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Cool! Ill gladly give it a shot.

BTW, I'd done FoW/UW and the Elites with almost all my lvl 20 classes

Warrior/Necro/Monk/Mesmer I haven't brought my Ritualist there but she's been to the Deep/Warrens

EVEN in situations like that I still end up seeing tanks run off, trying to kill everything themselves instead of waiting for a team, then turn to the team and go "Noob Monk, why are you not healing". Yet the person is half a screen away and me and the other monk is there trying to heal the rest of the group who are actually doing well.

Maybe I just don't have good luck with Warriors... but honestly most of them just feel that its all about killing and not tanking/controlling aggro. My favorite response is "Enemies can't attack if they are dead, why do I need to tank". Classic.

Pointless to argue as well.... they know everything, and of course me and a few select other people don't know crap. Blah!

Anyways ill definitely give it a try... Maybe Ill just give it a whirl on some henches for kicks. Hench > Pugs anyways

Seriously I can do pretty much any mission in either game without a pug. I prefer to have one guildy to go with me, so there are 2 controlled players and the rest just henches. We did THK a week or so like this (me and a guildy + henches). I was Monk, he was Necro and no one even died. Not even stupid henches. Just goes to show...

Effigy · Sep 21, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

There are certainly uses for the skill, but I'm not a big fan of it for general PvE. It's vulnerable to enchant stripping, and if enchant stripping is not an issue then bonding would be more effective. The AoE healing bonus is irrelevant in most situations because players are usually not "adjacent" to the one holding aggro. If aggro is out of control and everyone is getting hit, Heal Party is more effective for dealing with group-wide pressure.

Even if you have a dedicated tank than can hold aggro, he should be using skills to mitigate damage and therefore healing 25hp per hit is probably overkill (not always, but in many cases it is). If he has all the aggro, then you don't have to worry about healing anyone else and all your energy can go toward his welfare; if agrro breaks, a monk with spam heals and Heal Party will be better equipped for the situation than one with HH and/or Seed. And let's not forget that Seed foregoes the benefit of Divine Favor, unlike spam heals.

Again, I'm not saying Seed is a bad skill. I just don't think it's flexible enough to find a permanent spot on my skillbar. In a very organized PvE situation where the tank will be under serious fire, HH/Seed is a good combination; in my experience, you can't generally count on this for missions/quests especially in a PUG. HH and Seed become inferior in any situation where multiple players are taking damage, and those are the circumstances I try to plan for when I monk.

Ensign · Sep 21, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Seed is useful in PvE - either for putting on whoever is going to get the first bit of aggro from a mob in Prophecies, or for putting on a Ghostly Hero about to move in to capture an altar.

In Factions, it's kinda blah because it feels like every mob blows up enchantments, so precast Seeds don't do much. In PvP, it is a skill that responds to heavy damage on a single target with a two second cast time. the effect is strong, but the cast time makes it marginal.

Peace,
-CxE

Sooty · Sep 22, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

For pve i occasionally use a build based around healing seed, 20% enchantment staffs and glyph of renewal with something like essence bond for energy management. Seed can stay up permanently if it isn't stripped.

ubermancer · Sep 22, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Healing Seed + Healing Hands = PVE ownage.

Any other questions?